الجمعة، 20 نوفمبر 2015

Debate with Reshmi Soomary from Mauritius

Here  I have taken my info from website of Jehovah's Witnesses My purpose was to prove  for Christian people that there is Christian believe that jesus is not god

hi sister god bless you and guide you to truth way

i want you to believe that jesus christ is not god he is messenger of god

God – a single entity and not a trinity
A balanced view of God
To get a balanced and consistent view of who and what God is we must surely, have to take the whole of the Biblical record into account. We shall start with some references from the beginning of the Bible to see what the early believers in God wrote.

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD” Deuteronomy 6:4

“Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.” Isaiah 44:8

I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: Isaiah 45:5

“Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me…” Isaiah 46:9

So from these few verses we have seen that God has not once described himself as being three in one. No where in the Old Testament, or in the whole Bible for that matter, is mentioned the word Trinity. God has only said he is one being.

What does Jesus say about God?
And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he (Jesus) had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: Mark 12:28-29

So Jesus believes and supports the statement made in the old testament that God is one being.

The popular belief that God, is three beings in one (the Father, the son and the Holy spirit) is nowhere found in the scriptures. Consider Christs own words:

“I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.” John 5:30

Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. John 14:28

So is this a third part of almighty God speaking as some suggest? If so, Jesus was in subjection to the other third of his supposed being – “God the father”. If the view of the trinity is true then each third must have a ranking system. God the Father at the top and the others somewhere underneath him – but remember that the suggestion is that they are all one person according to the argument of the Trinity, so it is impossible for one being to have parts of it which are of higher authority than other parts of it. Consider this verse:

Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. Luke 22:42

Jesus was in complete subjection to the fathers will, but he had a will of his own. This clearly shows that they were not one person but two completely different beings, having their own wills.

Another point we could bring out is that the Bible teaches that God knew things that Jesus didn’t – this of course would be an impossibility if they were the same being:

But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Mark 13:32

What did the early Christians believe?
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 1Timothy 2:5

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. 1 Corinthians 8v6

Notice how the apostle Paul believes that there is one God and one Lord Jesus. They are two different beings – not part of a trinity. Again we could mention here that the word “trinity” is nowhere to be found in the Bible but mainstream Christianity holds it up as a core doctrine.

Other Evidence to show that Jesus and God are not part of the trinity
God cannot be tempted
“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man” James 1:13

James tells us God cannot be tempted. Jesus was:

“For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin” Hebrews 4:15

For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted. Hebrews 2:14

How could God be tempted to sin against himself?! God makes the laws and therefore it is impossible for God to sin or even be tempted to sin.

God cannot die
Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God. Psalms 90:2

So God is everlasting. However Jesus died and was in the grave for 3 days:

I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. Revelation 1:18

God cannot be seen
In Timothy we read how that God dwells “in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. (1 Tim 6:16). But Jesus dwelt on earth and was seen of hundreds of people!

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. John 1:18

So Jesus then, declared God but cannot of been God himself because “No man has seen God at any time”.

The relationship between God and Jesus Christ
Although Jesus was not God, he was a manifestation of how God wants men to live. He thought like God, he obeyed God’s every command, he was the very likeness of God – BUT he was not God himself. Consider the following verses:

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 2 Corinthians 4:4

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Colossians 2:9

We can see that Jesus was a manifestation of God. He even tells us this himself:

I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.John 17:16

Manifested means “to clearly show”. He clearly showed what God wants us to be like to such an extent that he could say this:

I and my Father are one. John 10:30

In the light of the verses previously presented this cannot mean that Jesus was one being with the Father. All it is saying is that Jesus was one in purpose with God. This can clearly be prooved by examining what Christ says a little later in John:

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. John 17:20-21

The believers in Christ’s time were not part of the trinity (but if you take John 10:30 to mean that then, following this logic they must be!).

Where does the belief in the trinity come from?
We have seen how that, throughout the Bible God is only described as being one being. We have seen how that Jesus and the early followers of Christ also believed this and clearly taught it. So where and how has this view of the trinity come from?

Our history books show us that the belief comes from a creed called the Athinasian creed. It was published and imposed in the forth century after Christ died, about 300 years after Jesus walked the earth. The Romans used this creed when they changed from being Pagans to so called Christians and this Creed is still used in Churches around us today and is the basis of The Roman Catholic faith and the basis of the other faiths who have split from the Catholics. Here is a quote from it:

“The Catholic faith is this, that we worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity. Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the substance. For there is one person of the father another of the son and another of the holy ghost. But the Godhead of the father, of the son and of the holy ghost is all one, the glory equal the majesty co-eternal.”

Now we notice that none of this is backed up by scripture, the true word of God. Surly any true follower of God would have written in the relevant passages so that everyone could understand and know why this creed had to be obeyed. But there is not one.

The belief in the trinity is showed by nearly all history books to of been put in place after the early apostles and therefore is admitted to not of been what the early Christians believed. In a historical book called “The Doctrine of the trinity” by a Mr. P.E.White (who is a Catholic) we read this:

“From the very first the rule has been as a matter of fact, for the Church to preach the Truth, and then appeal to scripture in vindication of its own teaching.”

Sadly we feel that he is speaking truth. But why do so many follow after the belief of the Trinity? The answer is simple. They do not check it for themselves with what the Bible teaches. Consider Jesus Christ’s words:

Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. John 5:39

So it is to the Bible we must turn, and when we do, we do not find any evidence to suggest that God is made up of three beings.



She repeated that
Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.


No sister. Jesus is the messebger of god.

Jesus was not God
We would like to now dispel the common idea that Jesus was God. When we turn to our Bible’s and read the word of God without preconceived ideas and without ‘reading into’ the text the idea that Jesus was God himself can be seen to not be something which is taught. For example consider carefully this famous verse spoken in prayer by Jesus himself:

“…And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” John 17:3

So we see then that to obtain eternal life one must have a correct understanding of God AND Jesus Christ. They are not the one and the same personage. Here’s another passage which proves the same:

“But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.” 1 Corinthians 8:6

A careful analysis of history will reveal that the idea of Jesus being God in the concept known as “The Trinity” was not an idea that the apostles preached but was a concept which arose from within the early Church which developed into the “Catholic Church”. The doctrine of the Trinity is the idea that the ‘God head’ is made up of three personages “God the Father”, “God the son” and “The Holy Spirit”. These three beings are all equal parts of the same being. This corruption of the true teaching of the Bible continued down in time and remained with many of the “split off’s” from the Catholic Church also adopting this concept. The word ‘Trinity’ is not found in the Bible and the concept is not outlined there. It’s origin will be found in the creeds of men which have become an ingrained doctrine which people have attempted to squeeze into the Bible by twisting and reading into the text.

The Bible defies this doctrine of “The Trinity”. We’ve already seen a couple of examples but let us see what the Bible teaches in regard to the relationship between ‘The Father’ and ‘The son of God” (note the phrase “God the son” is also nowhere found in the Bible).

“Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.” John 14:28

The Father and Jesus then have different statuses. Jesus tells us that the Father is greater – they cannot therefore be equal.

As we study the Gospels we also find that Jesus had a different ‘will’ to the Father and that they ‘knew’ difference things. This would be impossible if they were one and the same being! Consider these passages:

“…Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.” Luke 22:42

“But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.” Matt 13:32

The idea that an almighty and eternal being would be born as a fragile baby child is not one that makes any sense at all. an immortal being, having to be fed, cleaned and taught things from scratch – and yet still be the same being that had awesome Creative power – simply seems very far fetched.

The Bible does however reveal that Jesus and The Father were one in purpose and we are told that we too, if we follow Jesus should be one in purpose as they are. Jesus “manifested” or showed forth, the character of God. Consider this verse:

“Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:” John 17:20



She repeated


She gave to me this video about  Muslims  converted to Christian
What Do Muslims Believe about Jesus?

Muslims respect and revere Jesus (peace be upon him). They consider him one of the greatest of God’s messengers to mankind. The Quran confirms his virgin birth, and a chapter of the Quran is entitled ‘Maryam’ (Mary). The Quran describes the birth of Jesus as follows:

(Remember) when the angels said, “O Mary, God gives you good news of a word from Him (God), whose name is the Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, revered in this world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (to God). He will speak to the people from his cradle and as a man, and he is of the righteous.” She said, “My Lord, how can I have a child when no mortal has touched me?” He said, “So (it will be). God creates what He wills. If He decrees a thing, He says to it only, ‘Be!’ and it is.” (Quran, 3:45-47)

Jesus was born miraculously by the command of God, the same command that had brought Adam into being with neither a father nor a mother. God has said:

The case of Jesus with God is like the case of Adam. He created him from dust, and then He said to him, “Be!” and he came into being. (Quran, 3:59)

During his prophetic mission, Jesus performed many miracles. God tells us that Jesus said:

“I have come to you with a sign from your Lord. I make for you the shape of a bird out of clay, I breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by God’s permission. I heal the blind from birth and the leper. And I bring the dead to life by God’s permission. And I tell you what you eat and what you store in your houses....” (Quran, 3:49)

Muslims believe that Jesus was not crucified. It was the plan of Jesus’ enemies to crucify him, but God saved him and raised him up to Him. And the likeness of Jesus was put over another man. Jesus’ enemies took this man and crucified him, thinking that he was Jesus. God has said:

...They said, “We killed the Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of God.” They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but the likeness of him was put on another man (and they killed that man)... (Quran, 4:157)

Neither Muhammad nor Jesus came to change the basic doctrine of the belief in one God, brought by earlier prophets, but rather to confirm and renew it.1

Reshmi Soomary


View the video  she said
Sister I have watched a lot of this video. Sister. I have sent to you a message. By evidence a bout the. Truth of jesus christ from holy book. And you never read and sent to me a video of some. Muslim convert to christian. Sister I know. A lot of muslim don't know anything. About islam and about christian. And easy to make them. Anything. Even. Athiests
Jesus was a man
The Bible does not reveal Jesus as a God but as a man – albeit a special man because he was the son of God. He was though a man with the same ‘nature’ as all humans – that is to say a proneness to sin and being subject to death.

“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;” 1 Tim 2:5

“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death… ” Hebrews 2:14

“Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren… For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.” Heb 2:17-18

“For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.” Hebrews 4:15

How could Jesus be tempted to sin against God if he was God? What would the point of been of speeding 40 days in the wilderness being tempted? These things simply do not make an sense unless we conclude that Jesus was a man, the son of God, and not God himself, having the same nature as other men but having been given the power, by God to overcome the temptations that came his way. In every temptation Jesus chose to do God’s will
Sister. You believe in holybook. Surly so. Do know that in holybook. There are. A lot of. Mistake ? So. How can the god do these mistakes.

Reshmi Soomary

 


She said
I believe in Jesus. He died for me that I dont perish but have eternal life. Jesus is the centre of my life. I have experience His greatness in my life, no one will ever be able to dissuade me. Jesus is my Lord and saviour, the king of my life.... whether you belive or not. but it's good to know no one has died for your sins and will never do. He paid a price at the cross. If you believe you will be saved


Please see this. Video
Sister even. Hindo people or in any religion will see same as you said. But god gaved to us a mind to can see the different between the right and false. So. By my mind knows the truth not by my emotion.
Maybe by my emotion. I will make my mum is my god. But we are. Human being. Know. By our. Mind. Know. How is. Wrong. To. Say that our god is dead. How. ????

How. Can believe that. The god is. Three in one. How. We can. Say. Father is god and he isnot the son or holyspirit. And also. The son is the god and he isnot. The father or the holyspirit. And also again. We say. The holyspirit is the god and he isnot the father or the son. Anyone can understand. This equation. None never.
Believe my. To know your god is very easy noneed. For hard understanding
Belief in God:

Muslims believe in one, unique, incomparable God, Who has no son nor partner, and that none has the right to be worshipped but Him alone. He is the true God, and every other deity is false. He has the most magnificent names and sublime perfect attributes. No one shares His divinity, nor His attributes. In the Quran, God describes Himself:

Say, “He is God, the One. God, to Whom the creatures turn for their needs. He begets not, nor was He begotten, and there is none like Him.” (Quran, 112:1-4)

Chapter 112 of the Quran written in Arabic calligraphy

Chapter 112 of the Quran written in Arabic calligraphy.

No one has the right to be invoked, supplicated, prayed to, or shown any act of worship, but God alone.

God alone is the Almighty, the Creator, the Sovereign, and the Sustainer of everything in the whole universe. He manages all affairs. He stands in need of none of His creatures, and all His creatures depend on Him for all that they need. He is the All-Hearing, the All-Seeing, and the All-Knowing. In a perfect manner, His knowledge encompasses all things, the open and the secret, and the public and the private. He knows what has happened, what will happen, and how it will happen. No affair occurs in the whole world except by His will. Whatever He wills is, and whatever He does not will is not and will never be. His will is above the will of all the creatures. He has power over all things, and He is able to do everything. He is the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful, and the Most Beneficent. In one of the sayings of the Prophet Muhammad , we are told that God is more merciful to His creatures than a mother to her child.1 God is far removed from injustice and tyranny. He is All-Wise in all of His actions and decrees. If someone wants something from God, he or she can ask God directly without asking anyone else to intercede with God for him or her.
God alone is the Almighty, the Creator, the Sovereign, and the Sustainer of everything in the whole universe. He manages all affairs. He stands in need of none of His creatures, and all His creatures depend on Him for all that they need. He is the All-Hearing, the All-Seeing, and the All-Knowing. In a perfect manner, His knowledge encompasses all things, the open and the secret, and the public and the private. He knows what has happened, what will happen, and how it will happen. No affair occurs in the whole world except by His will. Whatever He wills is, and whatever He does not will is not and will never be. His will is above the will of all the creatures. He has power over all things, and He is able to do everything. He is the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful, and the Most Beneficent. In one of the sayings of the Prophet Muhammad , we are told that God is more merciful to His creatures than a mother to her child.1 God is far removed from injustice and tyranny. He is All-Wise in all of His actions and decrees. If someone wants something from God, he or she can ask God directly without asking anyone else to intercede with God for him or her.

God is not Jesus, and Jesus is not God.2 Even Jesus himself rejected this. God has said in the Quran:

Indeed, they have disbelieved who have said, “God is the Messiah (Jesus), son of Mary.” The Messiah said, “Children of Israel, worship God, my Lord and your Lord. Whoever associates partners in worship with God, then God has forbidden Paradise for him, and his home is the Fire (Hell). For the wrongdoers,3 there will be no helpers.” (Quran, 5:72)

God is not a trinity. God has said in the Quran:

Indeed, they disbelieve who say, “God is the third of three (in a trinity),” when there is no god but one God. If they desist not from what they say, truly, a painful punishment will befall the disbelievers among them. Would they not rather repent to God and ask His forgiveness? For God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. The Messiah (Jesus), son of Mary, was no more than a messenger... (Quran, 5:73-75)

Islam rejects that God rested on the seventh day of the creation, that He wrestled with one of His angels, that He is an envious plotter against mankind, or that He is incarnate in any human being. Islam also rejects the attribution of any human form to God. All of these are considered blasphemous. God is the Exalted. He is far removed from every imperfection. He never becomes weary. He does not become drowsy nor does he sleep.

The Arabic word Allah means God (the one and only true God who created the whole universe). This word Allah is a name for God, which is used by Arabic speakers, both Arab Muslims and Arab Christians. This word cannot be used to designate anything other than the one true God. The Arabic word Allah occurs in the Quran about 2700 times. In Aramaic, a language related closely to Arabic and the language that Jesus habitually spoke,4 God is also referred to as Allah
Finally. Sister. I hope if I didn't bother you. I love you as my sister. And. I wish the good things. For. You. Sister. Take this advice from me. Don't believe anything about islam until you read it from. Their sources. God bless you sister and guide you to his right way. And I hope to talk with again. Sister. I'm not bad. I'm human as you. Love the god and love the people.

http://www.islam-guide.com
Bye bye

Finally  she blocked me